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Phat Girlz ou quels sont vos critères de Beauté ?

 
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Gnata
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MessagePosté le: Jeu 07 Sep 2006 19:14    Sujet du message: Phat Girlz ou quels sont vos critères de Beauté ? Répondre en citant

J'ai , hier au détour d'un "Blockbuster" , pris un film que j'ai visionné , Phat Girlz avec Mo'nique , ceux qui connaissent cette actrice Afro-américaine savent qu'elle est de taille forte ( ou "thick Madame" comme on dit en Afrique surtout au Nigeria ) , ce qui m'a marqué dans cet opus ce sont justement les canons de beauté suivant les origines des personnes...

L'Histoire :
Les actrices & Acteurs : Mo'nique ( dans le rôle de Jazmin) , son amie Kendra Johnson ( dans le rôle de Stacey ) , sa cousine Joyful D ( dans le rôle de Mia ) ,Jimmy Jean-loius , acteur Haïtien ( dans le rôle de Tundé , un docteur Nigérian ) et les deux amis de Tundé des Nigérians aussi dans le film ...

La vie de Mo'nique ( Jazmin donc dans le film ) est ainsi faite que de tout temps , depuis son enfance jusqu'à l'âge adulte , elle a tjrs été de taille "forte" ( comprennez obèse dans le vocabulaire Occidental ) , l'une des conséquences directes de cette position est qu'elle ne s'est pratiquement pas envoyée en l'air depuis ... euh mathusalem , par manque de prétendants Laughing , son amie de même "taille" Stacey en est devenue névrosée si bien que la pudeur qu'elle trimballe comme un boulet ( du fait de sa taille forte ) va jusqu'à contaminer son style vestimentaire , qui ne découvre aucune peau , s'en ressent ( pourtant elle travaille dans une shop de prêt-à-porter) .
Sa cousine Mia qui est d'une maigreur maladive est , elle , très populaire auprès des gars ...

Tout etait bien ( ou mormal ) au meilleur des mondes jusqu'à ce qu'elle gagne un concours qui l'emene dans un lieu de villégiature où glamour et culte du corps svelte est de rigueur , c'est là où elle s'attendait le moins que Jazmin tombe sur Tundé , un médecin Africain de passage aux États-Unis.
Leur rencontre est assez cocasse parceque la cousine qui s'attendait ( vue sa taille maladivement svelte ) à être "la sexy et convoitée d'office dans leur groupe" se rend compte qu'elle n'a pas la côte , en tout cas pas avec ces Africains , des trois africains ( Tundé et 2 de ses amis ) présents lors des présentations , le plus malheureux des 3 fut flanquée de la cousine de Jazmin , Mia, de loin la plus maigre ...alors que Jazmin et Stacey furent les "most sexy mama" du coin , autant dire le monde à l'envers .

Voilà pour l'Histoire , je vous épargne des fioritures , le synopsis ici juste pour nous rappeller que selon d'où nous sommes originaires , nous avons des canons de beauté différents , les miens se sont révélés au collège ( sûrement bien avant ) , je les ai bien sûr hérité de la société d'où je suis originaire , et ils sont qu'une femme doit avoir ce que les Antillais ou Congolais appellent Bonda/Bunda , nous Ivoiriens disons BODA ,TASSABA ou Tass ect...
Je ne me suis jamais imaginé , tout comme pleins d'Africains ayant subi et hérité ces canons de beauté AUTRES qu'Occidentaux , en train de courtiser une femme d'une certaine "taille" ( maigre , sans postérieur et tout ce qui va avec ... on ne va pas enter dans les détails ) , de fait , la denière fois que je m'y suis essayé ( il y a quand même longtemps ) j'ai crû que je "dealais" avec un homme au pieux , well , une "sérieuse" image infernale , assez flippante au demeurant , merci ! , depuis donc je n'ai plus jamais voulu réediter le coup ...

Ce post est pour revoir encore une fois nos différents paradigmes sociétaux concernant la beauté , selon ceux qui interviendront .
Concernant le film , j'ai trouvé dans le film son amie ( Stacey ) très à mon goût Laughing , mais bon , selon les canons Occidentaux elle n'est rien d'autre qu'une phat Girlz ... Aussi au bout du compte je me demande si ( la question est surtout posée aux Hommes pour les canons Feminins et ,les femmes pour les canons masculins ) les canons de beauté que vous avez hérité de votre pays , region ou ville sont les mêmes que moi ? , chez moi ( chez les Bété de CIV ) TRADITIONNELLEMENT en plus des critères sus-cités , les femmes doivent , pour être décrétées belles , avoir le cou assez délimité par les railures , les jambes assez charnues .

Et vous ,quels sont vos canons , traditionnels/régionaux/culturels de beauté feminins ( pour les Hommes ) ou masculins ( pour les Femmes ) ?
_________________
"Always be intolerant to ignorance but understanding of illiteracy (..)in those homely sayings (mother wit) was couched the collective wisdom of generations" I know why the caged bird sings, p99, Maya Angelou
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Benny Da B'
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MessagePosté le: Jeu 07 Sep 2006 19:39    Sujet du message: Re: Phat Girlz ou quels sont vos critères de Beauté ? Répondre en citant

Gnata a écrit:
chez moi ( chez les Bété de CIV ) TRADITIONNELLEMENT en plus des critères sus-cités , les femmes doivent , pour être décrétées belles , avoir le cou assez délimité par les railures , les jambes assez charnues .



Gnata,

Je pense que le "cou coupé" comme on dit ici tu peux l'étendre à toute la CI..voir peut être même une grande partie de l'Afrique de l'Ouest car je l'ai rencontré fréquement ce truc.

Sinon

** Mode Provocation ON **

Haaan Haaaaaaaaaan !!! C'est pour çà que les femmes Bété ont les mollets musclées Dé ! Des siècles de sélection naturelles ! Smile Smile

** Mode Provocation OFF **
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Gnata
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MessagePosté le: Jeu 07 Sep 2006 20:35    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Benny Da B' a écrit:
Gnata a écrit:
chez moi ( chez les Bété de CIV ) TRADITIONNELLEMENT en plus des critères sus-cités , les femmes doivent , pour être décrétées belles , avoir le cou assez délimité par les railures , les jambes assez charnues .



Gnata,

Je pense que le "cou coupé" comme on dit ici tu peux l'étendre à toute la CI..voir peut être même une grande partie de l'Afrique de l'Ouest car je l'ai rencontré fréquement ce truc.

Sinon

** Mode Provocation ON **

Haaan Haaaaaaaaaan !!! C'est pour çà que les femmes Bété ont les mollets musclées Dé ! Des siècles de sélection naturelles ! Smile Smile

** Mode Provocation OFF **

Laughing Laughing Laughing tu as tout compris , man !
Sinon tu n'as pas repondu à ma question , d'abord dis moi quels sont les canons chez vous les Agni (blofouè ou non) , puis si possible les tiens ?
_________________
"Always be intolerant to ignorance but understanding of illiteracy (..)in those homely sayings (mother wit) was couched the collective wisdom of generations" I know why the caged bird sings, p99, Maya Angelou
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Benny Da B'
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MessagePosté le: Ven 08 Sep 2006 09:59    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Gnata a écrit:

Laughing Laughing Laughing tu as tout compris , man !
Sinon tu n'as pas repondu à ma question , d'abord dis moi quels sont les canons chez vous les Agni (blofouè ou non) , puis si possible les tiens ?


Bah le cou coupé comme je t'ai dit on l'a aussi. La propension à aimer les choses en forme çà oui ! Importance de la maternité et de tout ce qui tourne autour dans notre culture donc forcément ca se ressent dans les critères de beauté. Donc on est loin des critères occidentaux.

Les Agnis font aussi super gaffe à des trucs de comportements de la demoiselle, mais bon comme on parle de critères physique.

En ce qui me concerne ? Bah...je suis un peu tout terrain mais j'avoue que je reste très attaché à notre hyperdorlose (nom scientifique du Tassa DigBA ! Smile) et je fais gaffe aux yeux...à l'harmonie du visage en fait pour tout dire.
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bamiléké
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MessagePosté le: Lun 11 Sep 2006 18:13    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Mince( pas maigre), avec des fesses rebondies , pas trops larges de préférence,beau visage, belle bouche et brune de peau...aie aie aie,je vais me faire taper sur les doigts!!! (ma mère et très brune de peau pour l'explication freudienne!!!)

PS.Beaucoups en Afrique préfèrent le type de popotin:" large,s relevées et soutenues "...

..."et qui n'aime pas l'argent..."comme dirait le comique camerounais Jean Miché Kankan Laughing Laughing
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Mentalité de la cueuillette=sida économique

« nan laara an saara » :
"Si on se couche, on est mort" . Joseph Ki-Zerbo
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Gnata
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MessagePosté le: Mar 12 Sep 2006 18:28    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

bamiléké a écrit:
Mince( pas maigre), avec des fesses rebondies , pas trops larges de préférence,beau visage, belle bouche et brune de peau...aie aie aie,je vais me faire taper sur les doigts!!! (ma mère et très brune de peau pour l'explication freudienne!!!)

PS.Beaucoups en Afrique préfèrent le type de popotin:" larges relevées et soutenues "...

..."et qui n'aime pas l'argent..."comme dirait le comique camerounais Jean Miché Kankan Laughing Laughing


Surprised Well , j'avais voulu juste un truc du genre ... euh un peu moins comment dire , moins expressif dans les détails pour nous porter plus sur les canons TRADITIONNELS et CULTURELS , le presonnel venant loin derrière , vu qu'il y a beaucoup de jeunes âmes , assez sensibles d'ailleurs à ne pas brusquer ici Laughing .
Par ton pseudo je conjecturerais que tu es Bamiléké n'est-ce pas ? quels sont donc les Canons TRADITIONNELS & CULTURELS Bamilékés , et si tu en connais pour d'autres langues Camerounaises , je suis preneur !
J'étais à cours d'exemples de canons surtout Africains/Afro lors d'une petite discussion , j'avais juré de ne plus être à cours ...

Benny a écrit:
Les Agnis font aussi super gaffe à des trucs de comportements de la demoiselle
Wouallaaaa Benny ! Dis m'en plus ...
_________________
"Always be intolerant to ignorance but understanding of illiteracy (..)in those homely sayings (mother wit) was couched the collective wisdom of generations" I know why the caged bird sings, p99, Maya Angelou


Dernière édition par Gnata le Mar 12 Sep 2006 20:06; édité 1 fois
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Benny Da B'
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MessagePosté le: Mar 12 Sep 2006 19:12    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Gnata a écrit:


Benny a écrit:
Les Agnis font aussi super gaffe à des trucs de comportements de la demoiselle
Wouallaaaa Benny ! Dis m'en plus ...


Du genre, elle doit avoir un air sage devant tes parents mais en même pas paraitre trop soumise.

Penser à t'amener de l'eau AVANT de demander les nouvelles.

Te saluer plusieurs fois. (avant et après que tu ais bu)

Avoir "honte" (ce qui en ivoirien veut dire adopter une attitude très renfermée) de ses beaux parents (chez nous par exemple il est quasi impossible de manger à la meme table que ses beaux parents).

Faire gaffe aux tontons du coté de la mère plus qu'à tout (matrilinéarité oblige).

Me dit pas que t'es jamais sortie avec une Agni Gnata ?! SmileSmile

Tout çà est un peu compliqué car sous une attitude faussement acceuillante et détendue, ils vont la scruter à mort sous toutes les coutures. La pauvre Smile

Ma mom va regarder la forme de sa tête aussi. Chez nous la tete tordue c'est mauvais Dé ! Smile (Les agnis massent beaucoup les tetes des bébés pour leur donner une forme qu'ils aiment..en fait pour redresser les petites bosses).

Bref, sont compliqué mes parents ! Smile
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Farao
Grioonaute régulier


Inscrit le: 11 Fév 2005
Messages: 441
Localisation: Mêwigbédji

MessagePosté le: Mar 19 Sep 2006 18:12    Sujet du message: Cultural Difference & Perception of Beauty Répondre en citant

Salut Gnata

Je suis tombé sur un article qui me semble avoir sa place dans ton topic. Il s’agit du compte-rendu d’une enquête réalisée aux USA auprès d’un échantillon de 20 femmes (10 Africaines et 10 Afro-américaines) sur leur perception de la beauté noire et l’influence de leur background culturel sur celle-ci.

L’auteur a présenté à ses sujets un jeu de photos de top-modèles noires et leur a demandé de les identifier comme Africaines ou Afro-américaines. Les critères et réactions ont été notés et commentés. (Certains font sourire et ne sont pas sans rappeler d’autres commentaires lus sur Grioo…)

C’est en anglais, alors je m’excuse d’avance auprès de ceux des grioonautes qui sont fâchés avec la langue de Shakespeare.




Cultural Difference:
Its Effect on the Perceptions of Beauty and Initial Relations between African and African American Women

Omomah Ilamosi Abebe
http://www-mcnair.berkeley.edu/2003journal/OAbebe.html


Abstract

This study analyzes the relationship between African American and immigrant African women, specifically from Nigeria and Ethiopia, within the United States. It looks at how their initial relationships and first impressions of one another are influenced by stereotypes and personal ideologies of what constitutes beauty and womanhood in their respective cultures.

Introduction

It is often assumed that a common racial identity allows for an automatic “kinship” between different ethnic groups, because similar experiences are associated with being of the same race. Although this assumption does hold some validity, difference in ethnicity can itself affect the formation of relationships within a race. John H. Stanfield, in his essay “Ethnic Modeling in Qualitative Research,” defines race as “constructed categories of populations that gain social and cultural relevance when random human qualities such as intellectual abilities, moral fiber, personalities, aesthetic tastes, and physical abilities become fixed and systematized through their association with phenotypical attributes” Stanfield, 333). Race is defined by color, and also characteristics that are seen as ‘supposed to go along’ with that color. Therefore, race has often been used to homogenize the different experiences and personalities of various ethnic groups within Stanfield, 336). What makes ethnicity so important is that it is a “critical attribute of race in that it is a basis of diversity within and between racial categories” (Stanfield, 333). Specifically, when talking about the black race, many ethnic groups and cultures arise from this category: African American, Ibo, Yoruba, and Jamaican, to name a few.

This literature review will discuss ethnic differences and conflicts that occur in the United States due to immigration. It discusses how ethnicity played a major role in the interaction among white Americans and white ethnic groups immigrating to the United States. Nevertheless, despite ethnic differences, assimilation was available to white ethnics through Americanization. This option was not available, to the same extent, to the Africans who were brought from their homeland to America during slavery. Rather, because of their race, acculturation[1] became the process in which Africans existed within the United States, later developing an African American identity. This, in turn, like ethnic differences within the white race, affected the relationship African Americans were to later have with immigrating Africans. This research therefore reveals some of these experiences. I focus on how definitions of womanhood and beauty, due to differing cultures, affect the first impressions of and initial relationships between African American and African women.


Background and Literature Review

The United States of America frequently has been described as a nation of many nations—a mixture of immigrants from all over the world. Between 1820 and 1930, there were approximately 35 million European immigrants who came to this country (Schaefer ix). They came with diverse languages, cultures, and traditions, seeking freedom and economic opportunity—the “American Dream." The diversity these groups brought, and still bring, to this country has been seen as both a source of pride and of problems (McLemore 45). One of these problems is the difficulty in defining what it is to be an American.

How does one go from a “foreign” identity to that of an “American”? Is this switch possible for everyone; if so, do all who can, make the “transformation”? It is often believed that it’s through the “three-generations process” that an immigrant can be acculturated or assimilated within American society.[2] By the end of this process, the third generations are expected to be fully assimilated.

Assimilation for white European immigrants is seen as natural, and an inevitable outcome. For other races assimilation is not so easily attainable. John Higham believed that “although white Americans have generally shown some hostility toward all foreigners, they have been more willing to accept the members of some groups than others” (7). In particular, the history of the United States shows that white resistance to the inclusion of different groups is greater against those who are defined as “non-white” than against those who are considered to be “white." Thus, the assimilatory process for blacks, if assimilation were to completely occur, was highly unlikely. Nevertheless, acculturation did occur by the formation of an African American identity, making it distinct from any African as well as American culture.

The African slaves imported into the English colonies in the late seventeenth and eighteenth centuries were diverse peoples, differing widely in appearance, traditions, and language; they saw themselves as belonging to distinct tribes, not to a race. Michael A. Gomez explains that English colonialists began the homogenization of Africans with the barracoons[3] as well as the middle passage, giving them a single, inclusive name: Negroes. “There were specific mechanisms in each phase of the African’s experience—the initial capture, [the] barracoon, [and the] transatlantic trek...through which he was increasingly nudged toward reassessment of his identity” (Gomez 154). In addition, upon arrival in the New World, plantations “functioned as a remarkable melting pot, in which distinctions between Mandigoes, Iboes, Angolans, and other African peoples were largely obliterated” (Pozzetta Cool. This process of ‘cultural obliteration’ laid the foundation for an African American identity and culture in the United States.[4]

When discussing recent black immigrants, who are not under the conditions of slavery and thus voluntarily immigrate, Roy Bryce-Laporte, in “Black Immigrants: The Experience of Invisibility and Inequality”, believes their “views and experiences have yet to be regarded as valuable historical or sociological data in their own right” (32). This could be partially due to the history of the United States dichotomizing its people into two groups— black and white—which in turn “does not allow for the idea that black people are themselves a diverse group with differences to warrant examination...” (Cathran 581). So then, not only can recent black immigrants be seen as “pressured by larger society to be Americans, but they [may] also feel pressured to be black Americans and less African, West Indian, or whatever” (Bryce-Laporte 4Cool. It is for this reason that the study of black immigrants to the United States, and their interaction with African Americans is of interest. Therefore, perceptions of beauty, which can be derived from one’s culture, becomes one aspect which can be analyzed for its effect on the relationship between two groups.


Methodology

This research was completed in the summer of 2002. It consisted of twenty interviews, and a self-created “Model Test," which is later defined. Of the twenty interviews ten were of African American women, five of Nigerian women and five of Ethiopian women. African American women were defined as born within the United States and whose parents were also born in the United States. “African women," due to the limitations of my research and accessibility,[5] were women born in Nigeria or Ethiopia and who later immigrated to the United States, as well as daughters who are first generation in this country. All participants were asked the ethnicity they identified themselves as; although some African women were born in the United States, they continued to identify themselves as African.

The participants were asked questions about their individual experiences, opinions and other relevant information. The following are sample questions that were asked to both groups:

- Basic demographic information (born, raised etc.).
- What exemplifies beauty and womanhood in your tribe/ within the African American community?
- Describe your relationship with African/African American women in America?

Before the interviews took place, the “Model Test” was administered. This consisted of showing the participants fifteen photographs of African and African American female fashion models (taken from the 2002, 37th edition of TRACE Magazine). The images selected were designed to reflect a spectrum of physical features depicted in the fashion industry. I had the participants try to identify the ethnicity of each model as African or African American. The purpose of this test was to see what physical characteristics were looked for to identify someone from each group. In doing this I was able to investigate if stereotypes about an African and African American “image” existed; how such stereotypes, if in existence, related to one’s perception of beauty and, in turn, affected initial relationships. I also took note of any other comments that were made about each model, which helped to facilitate discussions about beauty.

All subjects were asked to participate in this research by myself and through word-of-mouth. Announcements were made at events that catered to Africans and/or African Americans, informing them of my research interest and the qualifications to participate. I also encouraged those who heard my presentations to convey the information to family members and/or friends, who also qualify.

Typical responses from each group were chosen to present the general patterns of the comments received. Some methodological limitations to this research are a small sample size, the ages of my participants and location. During the time of the interviews, most of the participants were living in the San Francisco Bay Area, and were mostly of college age. Although it cannot be said that they represented the opinions of all Africans and African Americans in this country, they were able to speak from cultures they upheld and identified with, and therefore can be studied as a sample of opinions held within their respective cultures.

The following is a demographic overview of the participants:

African Americans (10)

Ages:
18 yrs. old = 1
20 yrs. old = 7
23 yrs. old = 1
Over 30 = 1

Africans (10)

Nigerians (5):

Ages:
18 yrs. old = 1 (Father Nigerian, Mother American, born US)[6]
22 yrs. old = 1 (Immigrated age 7)
23 yrs. old = 1 (Immigrated as a toddler)
24 yrs. old = 1 (Father Nigerian, Mother American, born US)
31 yrs. old = 1 (born in US, raised in Nigeria, immigrated age 27)

[i]Ethiopians (5):[/i]

Ages:
18 yrs. old = 1 (born in US)
21 yrs. old = 1 (Immigrated age 14)
22 yrs. old = 2 (born in US, raised in Ethiopia, immigrated age 14)
Over 30 = 1 (Immigrated as an adult, following husband’s arrival)

Date and Data Analysis

In conducting the “Model Test,” I found that there were several characteristics commonly looked for, by both groups, to identify one as African: darker skin tone, small eyes, strong cheek bone structure, a broad nose, “kinkiness” of hair, and fuller lips. Among the African participants all comments that were made were specific to why they categorized a model as a certain ethnicity. This contrasted with the African American participants. In addition to giving reasons for identifying a model as a certain ethnicity, spontaneous comments were made regarding the models aesthetic appearances, and whether or not they liked them. The following are examples of comments from some participants:


Figure 1: Liya (Ethopian model – Source: Steve Wood, “Liya,” Trace Magazine 37 (2002): 41. Reprinted with permission).

African American: “She looks mixed, I think she’s really pretty [...] African American.”

Nigerian: “Probably Ethiopian [...] the whiteness of her eyes and bone structure.”



Figure 2: Alek Wek (Sudanese model – Source: Steve Wood, “Alek Wek,” Trace Magazine 37 (2002): 45. Reprinted with permission).

African American: “Personally I don’t think the girl is cute, I’m sorry, it has nothing to do with her ethnicity. Maybe ‘cause she don’t have no hair. I think that she is a model, because she is so dark. Almost like her darkness is exploited, and this is the reason why she is a model. I feel like they really emphasize her darkness. Her being a model is ironic. I think that she is a model because she’s not cute. They say, “oh this woman is so exotic, she’s African, she’s so rare” and in all of that she’s beautiful.”

Nigerian: “Yeah, she’s African [...] I think I’ve seen her before.”



Figure 3: Jessica White (African American model – Source: Patrick Ibanez, “Jessica White,” Trace Magazine 37 (2002): 63. Reprinted with permission).

African American: “See this girl has hair, she’s really cute. She’s black [African American].”

Ethiopian: “She looks more African American than African...something about her face.”



Figure 4: Carla Maria (African American model – Source: Patrick Ibanez, “Carla Maria,” Trace Magazine 37 (2002): 64. Reprinted with permission).

African American: “[...] I don’t know...when I see African woman, they don’t have this little button nose like she got [...] African American.”

Nigerian: “She has softer African features, her Cheekbones [...] she might be African.”



Figure 5: Simone (Ugandan model – Source: Patrick Ibanez, “Simone,” Trace Magazine 37 (2002): 67. Reprinted with permission).

African American: “I think that she would be cute, if she wasn’t so Greasy [...] African.”

Ethiopian: “She looks African...her skin color, and lips.”



Figure 6: Jenine Bandle (South African model – Source: Patrick Ibanez, “Jenine Bandle,” Trace Magazine 37 (2002): 69. Reprinted with permission).

African American: “She looks like she’s black and white [...]
African American [...] I think she’s pretty.”

Ethiopian: “She has a really strong face structure [...] she’s
African, maybe Angolan.”


T. Arnoldi in Bryan Turner’s The Body and Society, suggests the importance of one’s physical appearance, and perceptions of it by others, in determining cultural difference. He states, “it is through both the lived experience of our bodies and our awareness of our culturally objectified body, that we come to know ourselves and to know others” (10). Physical appearance, attitudes, demeanor, gestures, and how one ‘decorates’ the body, say precise things about the society in which a person lives, the constraints and expectations a society puts upon its members, and the degree to which individuals are or are not integrated into that society or that of another. Therefore, what becomes of great significance is how one copes with the change of having one’s body—which had been socialized in a particular culture—adapt to a different culture. Perhaps this explains why all of the African interviewees reported being teased when first coming to America. They were teased for characteristics that identified them as ‘African’.

The “Model Test” also proved to be valuable because it allowed a conversation about the general role of models in our society. Models are portrayed to represent the epitome of beauty for a particular race and/or ethnicity. The representation of a particular group in the modeling industry, just as in any medium, affects how another group perceives that race and ethnicity. Thus, in the interviews, conversations about the differences between African American and African models emerged.

The following is a quote, given by an African American participant, critiquing the representation of Alek Wek, pictured in figure #2:



A lot of black women were mad because they were like, how are they gonna portray every black person as that. Basically they’re saying we want a white looking black girl to represent us in film or in the magazines and we don’t want anything that looks African. They don’t make her look pretty, they make Cindy Crawford look pretty, they make Tyra Banks look pretty [...Alek Wek] always looks greasy. [...] I think America, white people, are portraying her as the African black girl. This is what Africans look like, they are dark, they don’t have no hair, they don’t wear no makeup and they’re greasy. That’s not fair. I think that’s what black people think of when they think of Africa, and that’s something they don’t want to be associated with (my emphasis).

In contrast, an Ethiopian participant commented how she liked the different representation of a black woman that Wek portrays. Another participant, who is Nigerian, believed that black Americans might view the representation of Alek Wek “as negative, because they are defining beauty through European eyes...they’re seeing her through a slave mentality."

The comparison of these statements about Alek Wek is important. In the former quote, the portion italicized expresses a possible want of some African Americans to disassociate themselves from internalized perceptions of being “African” —distorted negative images taught and displayed in Western societies.[7] This disassociation can be allotted to the want, whether consciously or not, of some African Americans to assimilate within the larger American society. James Stuart Olsen, in his book The Ethnic Dimension in American History, wrote that among minority groups in America there is a “...will [to] want to relinquish those traits that make them distinctive so that they may 'disappear' socially” (102). Because of slavery and its stigmatizing effects, some African American women may not want to be identified with those traits that hinder their “disappearance” within American society—those differences that were used to call them inferior and to stunt social mobility. As a result, women with features such as Alek Wek may become a reminder of the black woman that was deemed inferior and unattractive. Not wanting to be different may also explain why some of the African participants, who went through the United States’ schooling system, attempted to “disappear” within African American society by changing their original African names, to those they believed sounded more ‘black,’ and attempting to talk ‘black,’ in order to homogenize themselves into what they perceived it meant to be black in America.

It is here where we can see how stereotypes are perpetuated which in turn, can impact perceptions of beauty. Differing perceptions may contribute to a more negative initial relationship between the groups. An Ethiopian participant speaks about how she feels African American women are viewed by Ethiopian men and women, and expresses some common stereotypes of black women as crazy, loud and dominant:

"Ethiopians I think [are] mostly scared of black women. And I think that basically has to do with the fact that they know that black women are either, what they heard or see in the media or whatever, they are so independent, loud, and strong. [Ethiopian men are] brought up in a society where women are like mellow and quiet. I think pretty much that’s what it all comes down to, just knowing that African American women are either too crazy or too loud, and too outgoing and sociable. And that’s really not common in African women; they’re really shy."

She continues, “I know a lot of family members that just have that attitude about African Americans. And I think some of them [are] due to their experience[s]...being teased by African Americans.”

An example of one of the stereotypes held about Africans within the black American community is the notion that being African means having a dark complexion. When I asked all participants if they thought dark skin was often associated with Africa, every participant answered “yes." An African American participant told of the effect she thought that had:

"I think that connotation is kind of negative. If I was to associate a black person with being dark skinned...[she goes into a monologue] “damn girl you’re dark," “I aint dark”...I mean people get all offensive when you say they’re dark. So, just to automatically associate African women with darkness is automatically gonna bring some other kind of stereotypes."

Color pigmentation has played a significant role in the lives of African Americans, tracing its roots back to slavery. It was used by whites to mark inferiority and to justify the enslavement of blacks. Skin complexion was also used within the slave community itself to create hierarchies, causing division, and sometimes jealousy. Therefore to automatically associate dark skin with Africans—a characteristic that has a negative history in this country—continues stereotypes and may affect the initial relationships between both groups negatively.

When asked what was considered beautiful in African as well as African American culture, all twenty of the participants defined an African American woman’s beauty aesthetically and an African woman’s in respect to her family, characteristically. The following are quotes said by an Ethiopian participant, about each group, that typifies the sentiments of all the interviewees.

African beauty:

It’s basically like taking care of your family—a responsible mother, a responsible wife. I mean I’m telling you all of this from like my mother’s experience and my grandma’s [too]. A lot of people judge you by your kids. So I guess beautiful is not in the sense of your features or whatever, but just how you take care of your family.

African American beauty:

A women who takes care of her body...meaning like get[ting] her hair done, get[ting] her nails done. I guess who puts on makeup whenever she goes out. Goes to work, being independent.

Other ‘beauty markers’ that were given for African American women were skin tone (a light complexion), slenderness, and “nice” hair.

These different notions of beauty seemed to be connected to the participants’ cultures. They appear to reflect cultural differences between their views on the role of women within the family. The following quote, by someone who has a Nigerian father and African American mother, and identifies herself as African American, demonstrates how the participants compared the role of women in each culture. Her statement is of much value because her parents are separated and she maintains contact with both. In visiting her father, who is now remarried to a Nigerian woman, she is able to compare the roles of women in that home to that of her mother’s:

They’re similar [African American women and African women] in the sense that they both demonstrate strength and a certain kind of dignity about them. They contrast on different issues of how they go about showing it. The African American women, her demonstration of strength is probably in her career...independence. The African woman might show her strength in like influencing her children in the long run. Like being a model of morals in her household. Making sure her house is taken care of.

The following is a quote from an African American woman recalling conversations with her Nigerian best friend about how Nigerian women view African American women, in regards to family:

"They don’t think the black woman respects the black man... [because] they don’t let him take his rightful place as the man, as the ruler of his home. [And in regards to children] there’s not enough discipline [...] definitely there’s a respect for parents in African children that’s lacking in American children. They can’t stand the disrespect in children."

Therefore, an African woman, because she may hold in high esteem the role of “homemaker," may view an African American woman, who portrays her strength through a career, rather than her children, negatively, in that she may not initially have much respect for her. This negative sentiment is apparent also in the language used by the African participants describing African American women as “loud” and “crazy.” Again, it was frequently said by my interviewees, from both cultures, that an African woman’s beauty and respect are gained through the success of her family, success being defined by moral and ethical terms, not finances.

Conclusion

Ethnic differences within a racial group are not foreign to America’s history. The role that culture and experience play when it comes to the interaction of two groups, even if they are of the same race, is important. Although one may want or expect Africans and African Americans to have comfortable encounters with one another, it appears to be quite usual for tension to initially arise.

One factor that may facilitate tension is perceptions of beauty. To what extent is the conception of beauty of African women, as defined by the participants, derived from their family role? And does this differ for African American women? If disparities between the two in fact do exist, to what extent is tradition and African culture vs. African American culture responsible for it? A more detailed exploration of conceptions of beauty between both groups needs to be undertaken. The questions raised above are just several of those we can ask ourselves in trying to determine how culture, through perceptions of beauty, affect the initial relationships between African and African American women.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Notes]

1 Acculturation is the restructuring and blending of cultures by one’s adaptation to a dominant society, whereas assimilation is the complete conformity of a person—taking in a culture as one’s own. This is difficult for blacks because the color of their skin allows for racial identity.

[2] For example, S. Dale McLemore in his book, Racial and Ethnic Relations in America.

[3] Forts and other structures that held captive Africans, along the coast of West Africa, until their journey across the Atlantic.

[4] Further reading on this topic is Ronald A. Reminick’s Black Ethnicity: A Conceptualization of Black Culture, Social Organization and Personality.

[5] Due to the availability of funds, I interviewed African women who resided in the area I was presently in, which is heavily populated with Nigerian and Ethiopian women.

[6] In Nigerian culture, the children of a marriage customarily take on the identity of the father. Therefore most “bicultural” participants considered themselves Nigerian vs. American.

[7] Allen, Robert L. The Concept of Self: A Study of Black Identity and Self-Esteem. Detroit: Wayne State University, 2001.

Works Cited

Allen, Robert L. The Concept of Self: A Study of Black Identity

and Self-Esteem. Detroit: Wayne State University, 2001.

Bryce-Laporte, Roy Simon. “Black Immigrants: The Experience

of Invisibility and Inequality.” Journal of Black Studies 3.1 (1972): 29-56.

Cathran, Mary E. and Jennifer V. Jackson. “Black versus Black:

The Relationship among African, African American, and African Caribbean Persons.” Journal of Black Studies 33.5 (2003): 576-604.

Gomez, A. Michael. Exchanging Our Country Marks: the

transformation of African Identities in the Colonial and Antebellum South. North Carolina: The University of North Carolina Press, 1998.

Higham, John. “Integrating America: The Problem of Assimilation
in the Nineteenth Century.” Journal of American Ethnic History 1 (1981): 7-25.

McLemore, Dale S. Racial and Ethnic Relations in America.

London: Allyn and Bacon, 1980.

Olsen, James Stuart. The Ethnic Dimension in American History.

New York: St. Martin’s Press, 1979.

Pozzetta, George E., ed. American Immigration and Ethnicity: a

20-volume Series of Distinguished Essays. New York: Garland Publishing, 1991.

Reminick, Ronald A. Black Ethnicity: A Conceptualization of

Black Culture, Social Organization and Personality. Iowa: Kendall/Hunt, 1988.

Schaefer, Richard T. Racial and Ethnic Groups. Glenview: Scott,

Foresman and Company, 1990.

Stanfield, John H. "Ethnic Modeling in Qualitative Research." Handbook of Qualitative Research: Theories and Issues. Ed. Norman K. Denzin and Yvonna S. Lincoln. Thousand Oaks: SAGE Publications, 1998. 333-358.

Turner, Bryan. The Body and Society: Explorations in Social

Theory. New York: Basil Blackwell, 1984.
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Gnata
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MessagePosté le: Mar 19 Sep 2006 19:39    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Salut Farao , très bon article , je ne suis pas à la maison , je commenterai plus tard ... longueur du post oblige !
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MessagePosté le: Lun 25 Sep 2006 19:08    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Salut Farao , excuses-moi du temps mis Wink !...

Ton texte est très dense , la panoplie de critères de Béauté dépasse le seul attrait physique et il est très intéressant de constater les différentes explications d'AFricains et de Noirs-Americains sur chacun ...

Citation:
T. Arnoldi in Bryan Turner’s The Body and Society, suggests the importance of one’s physical appearance, and perceptions of it by others, in determining cultural difference. He states, “it is through both the lived experience of our bodies and our awareness of our culturally objectified body, that we come to know ourselves and to know others

La remarque est très importante , et je crois qu'elle peut même être utilisée pour la définition de ce que l'on nommebeauté , c'est en fait selon Turner une sorte de demarche dialectique , tu ne realises que tu es beau/belle que parceque tu te définies en confrontant deux entités , ta perception et celle que l'autre porte sur toi.

Le test sur les models reproduit ce que l'on constate en Afrique même , plus la personne à une complexion plus claire avec des traits un peu plus fins , plus il est identifié à un non-africain , je me souviens que mon petit-frère avait l'habitude de rire d'un des membres du groupe Boys II Men tellement la ressemblance avec un voisin etait frappante , juste par le teint et un ou deux traits , la personne etait disqualifée pour être Noire-américaine .

Citation:
A lot of black women were mad because they were like, how are they gonna portray every black person as that. Basically they’re saying we want a white looking black girl to represent us in film or in the magazines and we don’t want anything that looks African. They don’t make her look pretty, they make Cindy Crawford look pretty, they make Tyra Banks look pretty [...Alek Wek] always looks greasy. [...] I think America, white people, are portraying her as the African black girl. This is what Africans look like, they are dark, they don’t have no hair, they don’t wear no makeup and they’re greasy. That’s not fair. I think that’s what black people think of when they think of Africa, and that’s something they don’t want to be associated with (my emphasis).


Well , assez dure la dame , les "greasy hair" que les Noirs-américains ( hommes comme femmes ) arborent n'aident pas non-plus Wink ...
Je crois que ce commentaire sur Alek Wek ( particulièrement ) resume ce que la majorité des Noirs pensent de la complexion , plus elle est Noire , moins c'est attrayant , la mélanocratie à outrance existe depuis l'esclavage , je doute fort que ca change , maintenant .
l'Ethiopien et le Nigerian etaient eux bien moins enclin au drame , le Nigérian résume bien la portée de tout ca :
Citation:
black Americans might view the representation of Alek Wek “as negative, because they are defining beauty through European eyes...they’re seeing her through a slave mentality.


Personnellement mon nez soi-disant épaté d'Africain me sert pendant le sport , et si j'arrive à être endurant pendant des efforts physiques assez intenses , c'est bien à cause de ce nez dit épaté , depuis j'ai pris l'habitude dire de mon nez qu'il n'est rien d'autre qu'un Nez d'Athlète , ce qui est d'ailleurs vrai et denote d'une volonté de le voir non comme une tare , mais un objet de beauté , je l'exhibe très souvent Laughing Laughing , de toutes les manières il nous evite de porter des "ecarteurs naseaux" comme le font les footballeurs américains ...blancs.

Une volonté de se moudre dans le moule de la populasse américaine à 80% blanche peut nous pousser à courrir les les chirurgies du nez , et à effacer cette très importante particularité , l'uniformisation dans le model , oubien dans le cas des Africains-américains , vouloir passer inapercu , passe aussi par une haine de nous-mêmes
Citation:
...want to relinquish those traits that make them distinctive so that they may 'disappear' socially” (102). Because of slavery and its stigmatizing effects, some African American women may not want to be identified with those traits that hinder their “disappearance” within American society—those differences that were used to call them inferior and to stunt social mobility
Je me dis qu'il reste beaucoup à faire pour ce problème , une solution serait à mon humble avis l'AFrocentricité tout bonnement , apprendre à se voir/regarder par ses propres paradigmes culturels , physiques ect... ca evite beaucoup de névroses .
Citation:
African beauty:
It’s basically like taking care of your family—a responsible mother, a responsible wife. I mean I’m telling you all of this from like my mother’s experience and my grandma’s [too]. A lot of people judge you by your kids. So I guess beautiful is not in the sense of your features or whatever, but just how you take care of your family.

African American beauty:
A women who takes care of her body...meaning like get[ting] her hair done, get[ting] her nails done. I guess who puts on makeup whenever she goes out. Goes to work, being independent

Je trouve tous ceci bien réducteur ca montre si besoin etait , combien entre individus mélanodermes nous sommes stéréotypés , la plus objective c'est je crois plus loin c'est la fille qui a des parents Nigerain-Africain/americain qui met le point sur les similitudes dans les caractères , les seules différences ( très très minimes à mon avis ) peuvent p-e être attribuées à l'environnement , sinon dans l'ensemble sur le plan comportemental les critères sont les mêmes .
Citation:
They’re similar [African American women and African women] in the sense that they both demonstrate strength and a certain kind of dignity about them. They contrast on different issues of how they go about showing it. The African American women, her demonstration of strength is probably in her career...independence. The African woman might show her strength in like influencing her children in the long run. Like being a model of morals in her household. Making sure her house is taken care of.


Ton texte ( surtout la partie que j'ai commenté ) recèle de beaucoup de renseignements sur la perception de ce qu'est la beauté physique , mais encore plus la beauté psychologique .
La première partie ( guessing ) que je n'ai pas commenté aurait fait de cette étude un travail complet s'il avait mis autant d'emphase sur les attributs physiques comme les formes , au lieu juste de se limiter à la peau , et à certains traits du visage

Il est cependant clair que plus on se rapproche du Type caucasien que ce soit celui à la mode par la forme que du type général ( traits fins ) plus on se fait prendre pour un Africain-américain , et par implication l'on semble plus belle , attitude que je n'aime pas trop ,et c'est justement le problème que ce film soulève , le fait de ne pas être capable de sortir culturellement de l'amérique%Europe/Occident blanche fera prendre toutes celles qui sont de descendantes Africaines ou non , qui sont potélées ou ayant des attributs ou traits typés africains pour les Africaines des pas belles , pourtant sous d'autres cieux elles sont reines .

Ps: Désolé pour les fautes !
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Farao
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MessagePosté le: Mar 26 Sep 2006 10:50    Sujet du message: My comments Répondre en citant

L'enquête est vraiment très revelatrice, en ce qu'elle démontre l'influence de l'environnement socio-culturel sur la construction des canons de beauté.

Concernant ta remarque:
Gnata a écrit:
La première partie ( guessing ) que je n'ai pas commenté aurait fait de cette étude un travail complet s'il avait mis autant d'emphase sur les attributs physiques comme les formes , au lieu juste de se limiter à la peau , et à certains traits du visage

L'auteur de l'article s'est juste contenté de laisser s'exprimer ses sujet. Si l'importance du teint, le type de cheveux et la préférence pour certains traits de visage est mise en avant, c'est qu'elles revètent une importance primordiale pour les personnes interrogées. On peut même dire qu'elles déterminent l'appréciation, à l'exclusion même des autres critères physiques, qui ne sont même plus évoqués (taille, formes, harmonie des traits, etc...).

De l'autre coté, il faut noter, du coté africain, l'irruption de critères qui ne sont pas strictement physiques:
Citation:
When asked what was considered beautiful in African as well as African American culture, all twenty of the participants defined an African American woman’s beauty aesthetically and an African woman’s in respect to her family, characteristically.

Citation:
African beauty:

It’s basically like taking care of your family—a responsible mother, a responsible wife. I mean I’m telling you all of this from like my mother’s experience and my grandma’s [too]. A lot of people judge you by your kids. So I guess beautiful is not in the sense of your features or whatever, but just how you take care of your family.

C'est présenté d'une façon un peu caricaturale et cliché, mais ça correspond à une certaine réalité, je pense. Je mets ça en parallèle avec le propos de Benny da B':
Benny a écrit:
Les Agnis font aussi super gaffe à des trucs de comportements de la demoiselle, mais bon comme on parle de critères physique.

Benny a écrit:
Du genre, elle doit avoir un air sage devant tes parents mais en même pas paraitre trop soumise.

Penser à t'amener de l'eau AVANT de demander les nouvelles.

Te saluer plusieurs fois. (avant et après que tu ais bu)

Avoir "honte" (ce qui en ivoirien veut dire adopter une attitude très renfermée) de ses beaux parents (chez nous par exemple il est quasi impossible de manger à la meme table que ses beaux parents).

Faire gaffe aux tontons du coté de la mère plus qu'à tout (matrilinéarité oblige).


Pour finir, un petit détail qui a son importance:
Gnata a écrit:
plus la personne à une complexion plus claire avec des traits un peu plus fins

Gnata a écrit:
Il est cependant clair que plus on se rapproche du Type caucasien (...)( traits fins ) plus on se fait prendre pour un Africain-américain

Dans le langage courant, il est courant de voir opposer la soit-disant "finesse" caucasienne aux traits "grossiers" des Nègres. Ce sont des qualificatifs tous droits sortis d'une période de l'histoire de l'Europe qu'elle aimerait voir oubliée. Ca me fait bondir de voir les Noirs eux-mêmes cautionner ces termes (qui reviennent assez souvent sur les forums de Grioo).

On ne le soulignera jamais assez: les adjectifs "fins" et "grossier" tiennent d'avantage du jugement de valeur que du descriptif. Il suffit d'ouvrir un dictionnaire pour s'en convaincre.

Certains verront cette petite mise au point comme une digression, mais on est au contraire au coeur du sujet: honnêtement, objectivement, il faut vraiment avoir le jugement pollué par des a-prioris occidentaux pour trouver une quelconque "finesse" dans les caractéristiques dites caucasiennes (nez étroit et protubérant, quasi-absence de lèvres, traits anguleux et irréguliers...)

Un piège de la langue française?
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